Dear Cardinal Oswald Gracias,
I take this opportunity to inform you that I know what the Catholic Church is all about and the CBCI (Catholic Bishop’s Conference of India). In fact, in the 1980s I was nominated by the CBCI to its National Advisory Committee (NAC). My husband and I have been teaching in prestigious Catholic institutions – Loyola College and Stella Maris college in Chennai. So it is not that I am a stranger to the politics and the policies of the Church and the church allied institutions. In fact I was on the selection Board of St. John’s Medical College, Bengaluru.
Seeing the happenings – witnessing the large scale misuse of Minority Rights, I am forced to write this letter to you. After the controversy regarding the letter by the Archbishop of Delhi, Anil Couto, you Cardinal Oswald Gracias, instead of smoothening things have made them more controversial.
If the Archbishop Anil Couto mentioned the ‘present turbulent times we are going through’, you have mentioned the growing anxiety among the minorities and even blamed the government for not doing enough. One wonders what the Catholic Church is up to. Instead of playing with words it could right away issue a statement saying that it does not support Modi’s government. One needs courage and guts to openly state that the church supports the Italian-origin Mrs. Sonia Gandhi and her son Rahul. The church cannot play hide and seek.
Now I wonder what is ‘enough’ when the you cite that the government is not doing enough – Cardinal Oswald, you should clarify and quantify what that ‘enough’ means. Look at the treachery with which Christian missionary NGOs are indulging in Breaking India – then dear Cardinal, you have nothing to say about it. Will any country across the globe allow the kind of freedom that the minorities enjoy in this Bharat?
Let us be honest. Take a look at the neighboring countries – the persecution and the denial of basic rights to the minorities are part of those governments’ functioning. I personally feel that the Catholics and the church have divided loyalties. It is totally oriented to Vatican. China might be wrong on many fronts, but is a good example on how to nurture patriotism and love for one’s own country.
By issuing statements and prayers, you are abetting and polarizing the nation on the basis of religion. This is exactly what the Congress under Mrs. Sonia Gandhi is indulging in. Rahul Gandhi who stated that power is poison, today is eager to drink that same poison.
By the way dear Cardinal, how many years did the Congress rule this country? If UPA 1 and UPA2 had done ‘enough’ for the poor, the downtrodden, women and Dalits, would we be in this state of affairs? Did you issue a statement then when you saw scams raining, warning that the morality of the government is at question? Did you instruct the ‘flock’ to pray for a government that is scam free? But in four years time, expectations from Modi is simply presumptuous given the enormity of the tasks unattended to by the previous governments.
It strikes me Cardinal to put the same question to you. Has the Catholic Church done enough for the Dalits, minorities and women and the downtrodden? You know how the late Rev. Jerome D’souza pleaded and demanded in the Constituent Assembly for Minority Rights. The Jesuits had vested interest in education which were granted, and the minority today enjoy far greater rights than the so-called majority.
The Minority Rights are for the Minority people, not exclusively for the priests and the nuns, the rich and their close circles. Look at the number of prestigious institutions you have. Thousands of your educational institutions across the country are run on tax payers’ monies – it comes from the government…the grants, the salaries, the pensions et al. Yet, did you think it necessary to use it at least for the downtrodden people – the Dalits, the women and the poor for whom your heart now bleeds? No, you used these for the rich and made them richer – kept all these segments you now mention and accuse the government of not doing enough for them, at the bottom of the hierarchical social and economic ladder.
Please dear Cardinal, remember the Minority Rights flow from the Minority people and are meant first for them. The government is investing heavily in these institutions and yet you say the government is not doing enough. How and why do you transfer these to the rich by giving them the priority in your institutions?
In the 80s when I went to Patna to attend the CBCI NAC, the then bishop of Patna in his homily stated that his ‘flock’ is very poor. In the next sentence he said that the first thing he did was to establish a college. This poor ‘flock’ of his has not even stepped into the portals of a school. Why the hell did he have to start a college I thought? So I met him after Mass and asked him. To this he replied that then ‘we will get all the powerful people with us’.
So you see Cardinal, you and the Church are no better – always seeking power. A contradiction to that carpenter’s son who said that His kingdom is not of this world. He did not establish a religion. He stood for values and these the church must uphold. It cannot be a counter witness to Jesus. So when you say that the government is not doing enough, I am wondering if you did your mite after taking all that government money in the name of the Minorities.
To come back to the anxieties you mentioned. You will know much better than me that Bharat is the one and only country where the Catholics as a minority are living in peace and there is no cause for anxiety. Tell me, when we have 1.25 billion, is it not in the nature of things that stray incidents happen? The church has abetted violence right from the beginning. Tamil Nadu is an example. The Christian NGOs are another headache. One wonders if we have too much of ‘azadi’. The media, especially the English-language and Western media is anti- Hindu.
A few years ago there was a headline in a leading paper on the front page, ‘Church vandalized’. But a few days later in a corner of the same paper, in small print it was reported that investigation showed that no church was vandalized but a cracker was burst and a glass pane in one of the windows cracked.
I have been to remote places to evaluate working of NGOs and found that most of the Christian NGOs simply fenced large tracts of government land and put up a cross. There was a mobile ambulance kept there – nothing more, nothing less. But the acres of land it occupied under the Cross was shameful – no hamlets for miles across. Land is simply occupied and fenced – put up a Crescent and/or Cross and one is safe. This cannot be done by the Hindus.
Churches are built just with a few bamboo poles and the roof is of straw or a sheet covering. If this is shaken down then the media will report ‘church building demolished!’ This is simply atrocious. No country will tolerate this kind of ‘azadi’ where no tax is paid by the church for the land. The poor people in the neigbourhood get annoyed and agitated when they realize that their land is all taken up and no tax paid, while they have to pay taxes. Where is truth?
This polarization of the nation was started by the Congress for power. You must know that Rajiv Gandhi ordered the breaking of locks of the Babri Masjid – and claimed that he will bring in Ram Rajya. That which started as a trickle has swelled into a torrent under his Italian wife. Now his son proclaims that the family is Shiv-Bhakt and he wears the Janeu (sacred thread). Have you excommunicated him? You will not, because to garner votes you know he is using religion. Is that not cheating the people? Is this the secularism you are expecting from the government?
So what religion do he and Mrs. Sonia Gandhi belong to? Dividing the people on the basis of caste and then on basis of religion. Please Cardinal Oswald, do not become another politician – it will hurt that Master whom you solemnly swear that you follow. If you issue statements, then the swamis and mutts can also issue statements – they can perform Yagnas for Modi’s government to come back because they want a secular government – not one ruled by Vatican and the Koran.
This is a Hindu country. There is no denying it. Baba Saheb Ambedkar had clearly stated that after partition, the Muslims must leave the country and go to Pakistan. You cannot eat the cake and have it too. This, our Dalit activists and secular politicians will not cite.
Right from time immemorial the Hindus have been at the receiving end – through persecution, Inquisitions and forced conversions. They have not persecuted other religious groups, rather they have welcomed Jews, Syrian Christians, Ahmadis etc. Today, a few fringe groups may become violent – that is not the Hindu community. It is not in their religion to persecute and to convert by the sword. They have been the victims. One must accept this history.
So why raise such an alarm when small incidents happen – why talk of growing anxiety, of turbulent period etc. Now, why do we raise an alarm when they assert? We have the Islamic countries, the Christian countries – nobody raises their eyebrows but when one says this is a Hindu country, why all hell breaks loose?
Coming back to the term ‘Minority Rights’, had you used it judiciously and with a purpose, had you and the politicians you support empowered the Dalits and downtrodden and women, today we would not have any poor or downtrodden. I can understand the politicians, but why did the church neglect them after garnering Rights in their name and the people’s money.
You will be quite aware that the Church in India possesses large assets – estates and properties. What does all this stand for? Why do you want the government to do ‘enough’; why not the church use these assets which belong to the people for their upliftment? Stand for a democracy – that is what our Constitution has given us – not a dynasty.
So when you want a government which will be secular and which will uphold the Constitution, then surely it cannot be the Congress. Please do not hide under riddles. Be frank and honest – that is what we expect of a religious leader. Stand up for the values of Jesus and not for any one religion.
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Hilda ‘s comparison to the Christians in the surrounding muslim countries is meaningless. Her view is that Christians in India should be thankful for the bread crumbs dished out is ridiculous. Christianity in India came centuries before Sikhism and Islam
Pasty as u said that all Hindus were settlers of Sindhi region but don’t forget all yr forefathers were Hindus too until they were lured into conversion.
It is likely that my forefathers were hindus, but sorry I will not follow you to do your beloved Sati.
Ya past christianity is the only ladder to heaven the rest are candidates to he’ll. Peace b with u.
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
——– Original message ——–From: Disqus Date: 31/05/2018 01:15 (GMT+05:30) To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Comment on Open letter to Cardinal Oswald Gracias, Archbishop of Mumbai
“It is likely that my forefathers were hindus, but sorry I will not follow you to do your beloved Sati.”
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It is likely that my forefathers were hindus, but sorry I will not follow you to do your beloved Sati.
3:45 p.m., Wednesday May 30
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Usha Pillai:
Pasty as u said that all Hindus were settlers of Sindhi region but don’t forget all yr forefathers were Hindus too until they were … Read more
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Hild’a letter is not well thought off. Her lens are all blurred. India was never a country. It was a land of principalities. It was the Christian British that kept it together. If it was left to the Hindus alone, most of India would have been under Muslim rule and divided.
Very well written and may be exactly what the many many common hindu thinks but cannot put forward… as a common citizen and a Hindu i feel really bad when muslims and christians talk in this manner as the world knows it that India is the only country where they have with full rights lived and flourished their religious practices and it is the only country where these minority religions talk non sense of Hindu religion and in the name of being secular and tolerant we let them talk non sense freely.
We shd hv showed them their place long back well it’s never too late to do so.
You are full of evil.
Pasty u say that i am full of evil but yr says that u r Mary incarnate. Come on there has always been foolish people around who think that British rule was good ( not denying some areas where they contributed to the good cause) slavery is slavery. Do u think Mahayana Gandhi Nehru n the like who kicked their ads out of here were fools n do u think the brits treated Indians at par with them in those days, beggars came to India looted plundered raped n then treated us like shit. Shame on u if u think likewise that they did any good. Even today they don’t include u into their society however u may try n imitate them in dress behaviour habits n practices. For heaven sake don’t compare that saintly soul of mother Teresa to Italian mafia Sonia. Moreover at the on set I told u that u hv not done yr homework properly. We had Panini who gv grammar Aryabhatta who gv physics Chanakya who gv admin. And they were all in bc. We don’t need this shit British to gv us right education. We were well literate even bed they cud step here. Aristotle asked Alexander to get him a guru from India as a gift when he returns. Go n get yr thoughts n knowledge straight first. For that u hv to do vast reading n travel far n wide. Do u think that rape is unique to Delhi or under modi rule only. I pity yr thoughts. Do u mean rape does not take place in holy land of Rome Italy for that matter in any Christian majority countries. Even where punishment is severe under the nose of sharia law is Saudi Arabia rape cases r seen. It’s the mind set of people, u biased soul. If that was not the case we wud see west as pure n holy. Moreover Jesus Allah or lord Ram or Lord Krishna does not put evil into minds or teach anything wrong. It’s some cursed evil souls that commit these heniuos crimes like asharam bapu, father puthenpura or the Christian clergy n the maulavis who molest kids in madrasas. It has nothing to do with British teachings. If it was so good n pure we wud hv been a crime free society as the west is at present. They gv citizenship to us Indians ( or Hindus according to u) is bcoz they appreciate our brains n surely it’s not the gift of brits instead it’s the inheritance from the lineage of sanatan Saharan. Pls read to great writers/ thinkers or listen to the speeches of well read people. Or probably you r he’ll bent on reason only Christian writers or speakers. Being so biased does not widen yr area of thinking. It’s ok to practice ones religion within the four walls of yr home but putting on blinkers n thinking that this is the only n perfect way of life is foolish. No religion including Hindus n yrs is perfect. All hv their flaws. Stand on the other side n ull see them. Other than God nothing is perfect but one has to get the facts right before uttering. We did not need brits to put an end to sati wise Hindus wudhv rectified it anyways though later on. It was Mahatma phules wife who introduced education for ladies not the brits instead they kept them as house maids n keeps some of them who r descendant of them today. Sorry u r a residue the brits left back n so u cannot think anything rationally. Can’t help it.
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
——– Original message ——–From: Disqus Date: 31/05/2018 00:48 (GMT+05:30) To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Comment on Open letter to Cardinal Oswald Gracias, Archbishop of Mumbai
“You are full of evil.”
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You are full of evil.
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We shd hv showed them their place long back well it’s never too late to do so. Read more
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excellently articulated article , which all christians must read and come to their sense. I do not understand why this country was not declared a Hindu Rashtra , when all European countries are Christian nation and all Mulim countries are Islamic once .
In the four thousand years of religious literature in India we cannot find a single reference to the word ‘Hindu’ or ‘Hinduism’ in any religious text or any other ancient writing. It is a word concocted by Europeans to refer to the myriad streams of religious faiths in the land across Indus river. The very word Hinduism is thus a misnomer. Some scholars also interpret the word ‘Hindu’ to mean a liar, a slave, a black, an infidel, in short, a man possessed of every evil to be found in the world; while the term Arya was used to mean a pious, a learned, a noble, and a wise man, devoted to the true worship of the Eternal. With this explanation, I wonder how a man of common sense would like to be called a Hindu, leave alone Hindu Rashtra… BTW, how many European countries are Christian Nations mate? The easiest solution to your concern is to call all the “so called hindus” who are settled in US & European countries back to India.
Thank God u r not writing a dictionary with newly cooked up meanings of Hindu word. If u say Hindus should leave other countries, tell me which of those countries in ur mind have bestowed special minority rights to Hindus. U r turning the discussion upside down my friend.
Here the point is minorities enjoying special rights and still not falling in line or thanking their God or Indian govt for this generousity.
LIBERTY HAS GONE TO LICENCE by taking ur rights for granted without shouldering any responsibility.
Very apt
Well my friend…., you either have the choice of being content with the already cooked meaning of the word ‘Hindu’, or do some research. I am not writing any dictionary, but I have done my research.
Please don’t quote my comment out of context. My mention about calling back Hindus settled in european countries was in a different context and a direct reaction to some offensive comments from other members in this platform.
Further, minority rights are constitutional design carefully carved as a protection framework. The pretext for such rights arise only in the context of an oppressive social structure. Most other countries in the world don’t have such provision because there is equal treatment? The architects of such a provision in India were very clear of the historic injustices and the possibilities of the continued hegemony.
I think Minority rights are not charity provisions and there is no special generosity by any Government in doing so. Minority groups are equal tax payers and institutions run by minorities has contributed a lot to the country in various spheres. There is no need for minorities to fall in any line or thank any God for whatever generosity. And I would appreciate if you refrain from evaluating people taking their rights for grated without shouldering responsibilities, coz’ it applies to all citizens irrespective of majority or minority, and that includes you and me.
Dear Ananda raja.. what was your ancestors religion during the times of Alexander. Sir… There are smart people around. Just because the later Romans were able to screw up the pagans, the Jews the ancient Greeks, the ancient Romans, and the Zoroastrians, u are today preaching about history and your dear religion – Christianity. Do Christianity really represent what Jesus thought or what the Romans preached??? Did Jesus ever start a religion in first place??? Every religion comes into existence by killing numerous other preceding
religions, culturess, gods, people, faith. I hope I have given food for thought. That’s what we humans are ment to be.
you Christianist supremacists have some gall, we must say…your ability to spout bigotry is no less than any Islamist screeching in his Friday sermons against the ‘kafir’. You think that the British are still around that you can mouth anything to the natives and have it accepted as the truth? Hinduism is definitely a misnomer as we Hindus are practitioners of Hindu Dharma. And don’t worry about what we should call ourselves….the term Hindu goes back a long way and has its roots in the word ‘Sindhu’ of Vedic Sanskrit literature – read this if you really want to know more http://www.vhp.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/Hindu-the-Name-Presentation.ppt …Your fellow Abrahamic supremacists & crooked Islamist buddies wrote a series of Persian/Urdu dictionaries (Llugat) in the 19th century where they ascribed the meaning Kala (black), Chor (thief) etc. to ‘Hindu’. These are the ‘scholars’ you quote! As for European nations being Christian nations -UK’s PM called his country a “Christian nation” in 2015, the most dominant party in Germany is Christian Democratic Union, in American elections, visits to Churches are mandatory for all presidential candidates and we know what hold the Bible Belt has over Republican nominees, just see the xenophobic reaction to Muslim immigration that Europe is seeing now when Muslim population is hardly 2 to 7% in most countries. So peddle your crap elsewhere…time is up for charlatans like you. In one other comment you spouted nonsense that Hindu Dharma did not exist during Buddha’s time (~500 BCE) …that alone is enough to mark you out as a missionary propagandist. Who do u think Buddha’s gurus were when he first tried to find the path to moksha? The Vedas were written well before Buddha’s times, u fraud.
You call me whatever you want and I attribute it either to your ignorance or arrogance. If possible go and find one reference on the use of the word “Hindu” in any of the original texts of vedas, puranas, smrutis, sutras etc, etc. Todays literature conveniently make the link to the vedas, puranas etc with Hindu dharma. If you are satisfied with that, be happy. Buddhism was a clear resistance to the caste system of those days. Even in the world congress of religions 1893 (which was attended by Swami Vivekananda) the logo does not have Hinduism as religion, it only says Brahminism. Please see the photo for your reference. And I think you should pedddle your shit elsewhere as well. I am a native of this land and part of the strong dravidian culture.
you hate-mongering lot don’t even respect the right of others to define the religion/culture they follow, and you talk about tolerance & mutual respect? It is people like you are eradicating the cultural diversity of the world, the countless streams of folk/tribal religion & sects that coexisted with mainstream Hindu Dharma for millenia in Bharat are now under threat from Jharkhand to Arunachal, all because some bigots claim to have the exclusive copyright to the ‘one true Lord’. You keep jumping like a drunk from one position to another…one moment there was no ‘Hinduism’ at the time of Buddha, next minute you say that the Buddha offered resistance to the caste system? What do you know of your own culture, who has been brainwashed by a colonial Caldwell into spewing hate against his own ancestors….likes of Sri Thiruvalluvar would be pained to see how their legacy has fallen in the hands of people like you who call themselves ‘strong Dravidians’
Since you consciously choose to use the language of hate and anger, it think it clearly describes your attitude. You have no clue on my faith, belief system and perspectives. As a native and dravidian I am against any invasive hegemony.., be it caste system or anything you want to name it..
I have been reading Ms. Hilda Raja’s responses on various Christian views. I feel she has sold her soul to thirty pieces of silver. Let her seek the truth. Truth will set her free, S.M. Michael
To state the truth is selling the soul.. what about the church playing politics.. Did Jesus come in the dreams of the Bishop to say all this and create unnecessary chaos and try to polarise… shame on the church and people supporting it…
You need to read the letter again and if you didn’t understand then read it again and the read it again to properly understand what it means.. you guys are just parroting what your bjp gurus have said.. it is a simple prayer request.. and if you tell me about the referring to mentioning of bad situation that the country is going through then my friend you really need to see what is going on in your country… Rapes, bank frauds, database theft, religious intolerance, hindutva grups disturbing Muslim prayers which they’ve been doing for years in those places… Now of that is not a terbulent atmosphere then I don’t know what you need to wake up from your sleep with fear that tomorrow it might happen to you or your family… God forbid that happens and I pray to the God of christians(just to let you know that I am a Christian) so if the archbishop has written a letter it doesn’t mean Jesus has to tell him to do that.. he’s an indian and he’s a human before that.. his humanity asked him to do that.. unfortunately yours is still sleeping..
The ‘so called’ and ‘self proclaimed’ hindus, should first know their own place before showing others their places. One wonders who the hell told them that India belongs to the ‘so called’ hindus. They conveniently forget the Aryan invasion and infiltration of dirty caste system – the most uncivilized practice in vogue till date, and the RSS attempt to bring the scattered bits and pieces of rituals together under one banner. It is not worth a meaningful discuss with these predisposed creatures that are hard bent to polarize the country and spread hate among citizens
Every church celebrates Republic Day and Independence Day in the church premise and host the national flag. They sing the national anthem proudly. I haven’t seen that in any other religious premises. We are 100%Indian Christians.
Our gospel says spread the good news to everyone. The good news is to love and forgive. We keep spreading this.
I am closely connected with a NGO called Chetanalaya in Delhi. They have around 14 skill development centres in Delhi. It is managed by the Catholic priests. 90% poor non Christians get benefits out of these institutes.
We’ll never stop teaching of Love and Forgiveness.
We love our country more than anyone. Stop bringing political issue into our religion to benefit politically.
Let’s pray for our country and leaders. Let’s be united. Let’s fight against evil together. If you are a Christian, then be a good Christian. If you are Hindu, then be a good Hindu. If you are a Muslim, then be a good Muslim.
You don’t need to be Christian to be good. Love one another.. Respect women.. Help the needy..stop violence.. .stand together to oppose injustice…treat everyone equally… Keep your country clean.. Stop fighting in the name of religion…
another fake news by BJP IT CELL. Watch how BJP spreads fake news like this
[…] https://hindupost.in/dharma-religion/open-letter-cardinal-oswald-gracias/ […]
This author who wrote this is a such a racist. He hates muslims as well
The author is a lady, not a “he”. Please read and understand the article properly before commenting. The author, even though herself a Christian, is questioning the ways of the church.
Na, he is not a Christian. Just another RSS playout
Hahaha such sad, low quality, poorly written bait by a ‘PG level professor.’ Goes to show how low Indian education standards are.
Your English is not proper.
Improve before commenting and understand that monopoly of truth doesn’t rest with you or your bishop.
Suck a lingam, you illiterate, English as second language, wantwit.
Oh they claim to be the epitome of truth on earth my friend
Author has thread bare written facts. Cardinal is dictated by Sonia Maino. Skirmishes are part and parcel of daily life even with neighbors and brothers, and some skirmishes are taking place between Protestants and Catholics too…but to terms it is anti Christian by Cardinal was a LOWLIEST. LIE. Difference with Muslims is there and going to be there as they are a nuisance to global peace. If Cardinals become mullas, the good and wise Christians will dislike it.
Superb!
Go to Vatican dear Rice bAG converted scum
Hi….Regret for the reply…Religion is not a matter for public intercourse…
If it’s so then pls ask the cardinal to get the he’ll out of India n keep his dirty mouth shut. One converts on sword other on bread n milk n whom do they convert the illiterate n down trodden who does not even know who the he’ll is Jesus
Well, there is nothing dirty about his mouth nor should he keep his mouth shut, being a citizen of this country. He has constitutional rights as much as any other citizen has. BTW, If he has to get out of India because he is a Christian, where the hell would the so called ‘hindus’ go? To the place where the Aryans came from?? One has to recognise the fact that even after 2000 years of Christianity in India, the population is only about 2 percentage – Conversion is no more an issue. The article is merely a perception of the author on Cardinal’s position. She looks at it from her lense. Readers can choose their own lense to read and understand its contents. Let us not spread hate with our limited/fixed perspectives.
I think it is a great summary by the author of the silent atrocities of the church.
If all who support this show up in the vote booth and elect Modi in 2019 it will be fabulous.
Right bari hats off to u and all who do so
There is no doubt on the author’s analysis on the flaws in the Church. Being a Christian, she is honest enough to say it openly. But I am wondering how will that imply electing Modi in 2019. I pity this narrow thought-process
Just because a Christian is talking against the church doesn’t mean she’s not faking it.. trust me.. what’s she’s written I’m not denying.. there maybe times such things happened.. but she doesn’t have half the knowledge she’s talking about.. I can say that I’m the assistant of the arch bishop and write any nonsense will you go ahead and believe what I tell you? Or will you do your own research and probably go and ask the right people what the truth is..
I am not evaluating the contents of the article. It is the author’s perception and perspectives. As mentioned in my previous comments, readers should have the liberty to use their own lense (and sense) to understand the article – and thereby vouch or reject it.
We’ll, you are saying that she’s honest about what she’s saying.. So what do you expect me to think when you’ve clearly said that you don’t doubt her analysis of the flaws of the church.. but then you say you aren’t evaluating the content of her article. I don’t know what to make of that.. you’re either for or against..
I am not competent to say that the author is lying, although I don’t agree to her perspectives. She looks at it from a lense different from mine. My discussion/comments in this platform is not for or against the contents of the article. My concern and ensuing discussion/comments are on the response of some members which stimulates hate
Lol and you know what atrocities the church has done.. all you modi bhakts are so ignorant that you don’t understand that ever since modi has taken leadership of this country it has become a hindutva state.. and all you guys are supporting this.. disgusting! This shows you all have lost your humanity sold your souls to your modi..
Anandraj he does not hv to get out of India bcoz he’s a Christian
But just get out for ruling from a on orders of Vatican. If he has such ideas in his foolish brain he might as well get lost in to me
If you choose to interpret his opinion as ‘orders of Vatican’, I think that is already a biased interpretation. Peace be with you
Oh come on anandraj even a layman know that the Christian takes orders from Vatican. R u fooling yrself
Usha, the Church and Christians make reference to the Vatican only on matters concerning their faith, religion and related rituals. It has nothing to do with socio-cultural and political viewpoints. I will have no argument if your position is already predetermined. Have a nice day
Lol
All christians are not catholics who hold the pope in high regard.
Only the Roman Catholic church and their subsidiaries are answerable to the pope.
The christians who do not subscribe to the catholic way are generalised as protestants for all their protesting against catholicism.
So the other chirstians are protestants, pentecostals, seventh day adventists, jehovah’s witnesses, canaanites, syrian orthodox, marthomites, jacobites, baptists, methodists, lutherans, menonites, the church of north india, the church of south india, and I’m sure I’ve left out plenty.
Then there are the korean churches, the AG churches, the churches of self-proclaimed preachers and private groups who practice their own version of Christian life.
I protest about organised religion, every chance I get, so I am guessing I am a protestant 🙂 but I do believe that being a christian is about living a christian life and not about going to church or being visibly christian.
But it is sad when friends who lined up for christmas meals now sit back and let others refer to us as Chrislam Commies.
My understanding of Hindu is a long ways from this governments. If that makes me anti national- so be it.
Tatvam asi!
missionaries from the Protestant sects you mentioned like Pentecostals, Baptists, Seventh Day Adventists, Jehovah’s Witnesses etc. are far more aggressive and hate-mongering against ‘pagans’ like Hindus – most of the damaging proselytization which is tearing apart native cultures and even families is coming from these Protestant groups, who are as well organized as the Catholic Church and equally well-funded by the West, especially USA. You need to follow the work of @by2kaafi to understand how these nation-destroying missionaries are routing money through FCRA to target the most vulnerable sections of our society.
Only the bjp followers and hindutva grup members think so.. the Vatican has everything to do with religious matters which means it has certain say in what happens inside the church not outside.. the Vatican has no say in Indian politics.. even a fool wont believe that the Vatican has anything to do with India politics you really need to do your research.. I sense all this comes from assumption that you make through the brainwashing that has been done to you.. that’s all I can say..
First of all Joyal u r a Christian n u stand up for the church n Vatican then u r broad minded but when Hindus stand up then they r hate mongers. No brainwashing done friend. U hv heard sermons in church, several of them the priest saying vote only for congress since long time. All the more now bcoz it’s lead by an Italian mafia lady. I am not against Christians or Christ. In fact I hv many Catholic friends I visit church coz I am a convent educated person. All that I despise in both Christians n Muslims is that both of them claim that theirs is the only way to heaven and all others r wrong or candidates for he’ll n also the conversion policy one by sword n other by bread milk n word. If u deny that churches don’t preach or practice such instigative methods then what was all about it a letter from the Gujarat clergy n now from Delhi. Do u want us to turn a Blind eye or a deaf hear or r u fooling yrself.
Hahahaha… This shows even after going to a convent school you never learnt anything.. and the proof of you being brainwashed is that you say that the church teaches us to vote Congress… FYI the church stands on one motto… Freedom of choice.. every individual has freedom of choice this is what the church teaches the Church will teach you the ways but at the end of the day it is your choice to follow it or not and fyi the conversion policy in the church is very strict go look it up.. any Tom Dick and Harry just like that can’t become a Catholic, you can call yourself a Christian By your beliefs but you can’t become a Catholic because you need to be baptized and that takes a very long process and not everyone becomes a Catholic just because we offer them bread it is their choice to become Catholic that makes them Catholic… And italiIt mafia has nothing to do with this..
You really have no clue at all..please please I beg off you stop spreading hatred.. and do some genuine research…
Yr very reaction n anger speech shows how good a Christian r u
Hahahaha… You’re the one spreading hatred and I’m angry… What a joke.. expected from a bhakt though..you will try to put the blame on me but you won’t see that you’re doing it.
I have one thing to say to you.. it’s a famous phrase..
Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?
A phrase perfect for all bjp bhakts.. like you..
Also Google where it is from.
. all the best my dear may God bless you.. at the end no matter what the Catholic Church teaches us to love everyone..
Please show me the letters..
Why don’t we stop this tu tu mein mein n live like one Indians n for that matter we need to kick out the padrees mullahs n gurus out of politics only then we can live in peace n true brotherhood. I hv nothing against u bro if anything has hurt u pls forgive as u r a true christian
Exactly Usha, that is exactly the point.. but people like there are always going to spread hatred the choice is yours if you want give in to this hatred and do what these people want you to do.. and again it’s not about being a true christian. Anyone who loves the other unconditionally without any sign of hate automatically becomes a Christian.. you don’t need to specially convert for that.. a Christian is one who follows the footsteps of christ.. not one who converts.. which is why the Catholic Church is against giving money or bread in return for conversion..it is by faith that you choose a religion not by bread…. I hope what I said didn’t hurt you either.. I was just trying to make you understand that viewing things from 2 perspectives is better than viewing it from just one..
Usha, I see a lot of sense in this comment. I think it originates from the heart and not from the mind. Appreciate a lot. I fully agree with you that religion should be kept out of politics and vice-versa.
Thank you Usha for getting yourself educated in a Christian school. You are not the only Hindu that sought education from a Christian school. Every here there is a mile long of Hindus and Muslims at each school seeking education in a Christian school and applying for immigration to Christian majority countries. Why? Because Christian values are always sought after. Why do elder Hindus long for the British days in India? Indians when ruled by Indians treat fellow Indians worse than street dogs? The caste system creates that attitude.
Usha I can see your hatred against Christian’s.. all you seem to be doing is give hate comments against Christians.. what a pity you are for being so hateful.. just so you know all this hate will only affect you.. I hope you do some proper research before you type hate comments against anyone in general..
Anandaraj will you guys for heavens sake stop talking any shit in the name of constitutional rights.. enough is enough man.. just use your brains.. first of all no business to indulge in politics.. church just mind its religious business… everyone knows the story of converts in India and no need to act all holy and saints …
Archana, will you please learn some etiquette in use of language while discussing in public platforms. You are highly opinionated and lack basic decorum. I do not consider you worthy of any discussion. Please stay intact with your biased perceptions. If ever you come back to some senses, reflect on RSS ideology (to which the BJP is a party) and see if your religion is objectively detached from politics. Such hypocrisy
Lund leh lo muh mein, Pandit ji.
Hinduism originated in Sindh which is now in Pakistan. Why did the Hindus leave Sindh or for that matter Pakistan and flourish in India? Why aren’t Hindus not returning to their land of origin? The original Indians were the Dalits and tribals which the migrants Hindus conveniently created the caste system to keep the original inhabitants down. No human has the right to look down on others especially when it is seeped in culture. Hinduism is relatively new to Canada. The freedom that Hindus experience in Canada or any Christian majority countries are far greater than Christians experience in India in-spite of Christianity being in India for over 2000 years. Christians and their churches are being attacked on a regular basics hooligans supported by fanatics and Modi’s party.
Pasty u just know half the history. Hindus originated on the banks of Sindhi but little did u know that India or Hindustan was right from Afghanistan to Indonesia. So we did not get out of our place. In fact it was the stupid trick of the bloody bits to divide the country n the west got the clergy to do vast conversions by force. It’s better that they realise their roots n get back to the place of origin. All these we lived in peace n subdued but now we Hindus also started realising that other minorities r taking advantage of our warmth n hospitality. For that matter u r talking about religious freedom pls her what the Australian pm had to say about the other religions. Also do u know how they go about in tamilnadu other than mass conversion. They hv encroached one old temple land n made it the Christian cemetery n that for u must be yr right n less freedom on modis land. If they see any vacant land they just plant a cross overnight after few days put a shamiana over it made of palm leaves n if it’s blown away by wind they make a big hue n cry church vandalised church vandalised etc etc. Know yr facts bed speaking. I hv no hard feelings for fellow Christians but surely oppose their method n thought.
As I Hindus we hv caste divisions it looks as though u guys r perfect. What r protestants Roman Catholics 7 day Adventists born again the list goes on n on. Look within friend dear bef pointing fingers
If you agreed that Hinduism originated in Sindh, how did it get to Afghanistan and Indonesia. It did not magically appear in Indonesia and Afghanistan and North Indians ancestors are invaders from India’s West, East and North. Please do not mix up the word “Hindus” and “Hinduism”. India was never originally a country. It was a land of principalities. It was the Christian British which kept it together otherwise most of India would have been taken over my the ruling muslims and divided. Indian Christians are second to none as far as loyalty to India. Are you aware that when it came to procuring high quality bearings for India’s defence, it was the present corrupt government chose to have Chinese made bearings because they were cheaper instead of European bearings to fight the Chinese in the Doklam war? Those bearings were good for only one firing. Amazing loyalty by the BJP Hindus.
Pls grow up and get educated. Sonia did bofors n stacked money in Italy. What more do u want. She is not BJP I hope. Stole yr money n our money. That’s loyalty by Vatican u mean
Since you are Modi’s spy in Italy, please send us a video of Sonia’s money in Italy. Make sure it is stacked money not BJP’s demonetized old stuff. I’m sure you would not get raped in Delhi, sorry Italy, by BJP’s henchmen.
My god I gv up not bcoz u r right but u r blinded by cataract in yr brain. Let’s all try to b Indian first n only Indian. What u practice within yr four walls is yr business n only yrs. Don’t let Vatican or Pakistan dictate terms n rule our country influence our policies. We should learn from our past mistakes we hv been looted plundered butchered n what not. Now at least being educated we shd not fall prey to all this. As far as Sonia goes she was never an Indian n she will neither b. N pls don’t take sides for her she’s only filling her coffers n her family’s must not b even knowing the likes of u. Is she going to display her plundered wealth. She has 2500 Cortes to her credit . A bar waitress can never hv such wealth even a mad mad can understand. That’s how loyal she is for the want of power she had her mil killed
Being Indian comes from the heart and love for India. As a Hindu, you think you you have more right being an Indian than say Mother Teresa of Calcutta. If you practice the caste system, and look down on fellow Indians then you are a traitor to India. BJP ruled government knowingly buying poor quality bearings from Chinese to fight the Chinese in case of a war are traitors to India. Do you advocate practicing Sati? Who put a stop to it and why was it stopped? The answer is the Christian British and is revolting for any human to knowingly jump in a pyre. Why do you emphasize that Sonia was a bar waitress and can never be an Indian. There are Hindus all over Europe and have taken local citizenship. Bless them. You must be the devil incarnate. You write with hatred in your heart.
Who were Christians before 1 AD?? Was there any religion named Christianity?? Were our ancestors Christians during the times of Alexander or Buddha. Think on this lines. You will start getting answers for all your questions. All the knowledge is under a man’s hat. Explore. Patsy, every religion has its own time line and significance for its time. Few religions are ancient, few are new. They have their relevance during their times. Today, as for a I can tell, most of our existing major religions are irrelevant to the present context, and they don’t adhere to the present needs when man is planning multi planetary living.
As a bonus, read book named Cosmos by Carl Sagan (approx 50 year old still relevant). It should really help.
There was neither Christianity nor Islam nor Hinduism during the time of Alexander or Buddha. Bharat was not a country, it was a conglomerate of many kingdoms, which includes today’s Pakistan, India, Nepal, Bangladesh, Mynmar etc. Buddhism was a prominent philosophy during those days in the East, while Judaism was in the west and Taoism in China. So where comes the idea of India as an exclusive source of Hinduism?.
I think, going with your thought that most our existing religions (at least in its institutional forms) are irrelevant to the present context, we should refrain from spreading hate and polarizing people in the name of religion. I sincerely think we are not competent enough to objectively judge which religion is superior over other.
Most religions today have their limitation and flaws when it comes to institutional practices and thus no religion should be singled out for criticism.
Patsy were u alive since 2000 years ago or older????. U seem to b just another Modi hater driven with vested communal interest. The question of Indias origin cant be answered by another ignorant like u. U have have ur own abhrahamic scripture , but remember the same scripture is interpeted differentlt by jews, islamic, arabic, greek population. So even u dont hold a grip over knowledge of ur clans origins. Forget Hindus, Sindhus and Indic poulation.Dalits , tribals are akin to the blacks-white racism, skinheads,communists party, slavery, apartheid and other may vices that engulfed since ages all islamic-arab and english-christ-judaism poulation. If religion is not associated here , then same for others.